Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/19/1996 08:04 AM House RES
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 19, 1996
8:04 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Joe Green, Co-Chairman
Representative William K. "Bill" Williams, Co-Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chairman
Representative Alan Austerman
Representative John Davies
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Don Long
Representative Irene Nicholia
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Ramona Barnes
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 342
"An Act relating to water quality."
- PASSED CSHB 342 (RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
Confirmation hearing Anne Kathryn Ruggles, Board of Game
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
Confirmation hearing Victor Van Ballenberghe, Board of Game
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
Confirmation hearing Greg Roczicka, Board of Game
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 342
SHORT TITLE: WATER QUALITY STANDARDS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) ROKEBERG
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
05/09/95 2042 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
10/17/95 (H) O&G AT 1:00 PM ANCHORAGE LIO
10/17/95 (H) MINUTE(O&G)
02/13/96 (H) O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124
02/13/96 (H) MINUTE(O&G)
02/20/96 (H) O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124
02/20/96 (H) MINUTE(O&G)
03/21/96 (H) O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/21/96 (H) MINUTE(O&G)
03/22/96 3267 (H) O&G, RES
03/22/96 3267 (H) O&G RPT CS(O&G) 1DP 3NR
03/22/96 3268 (H) DP: ROKEBERG
03/22/96 3268 (H) NR: G.DAVIS, B.DAVIS, WILLIAMS
03/22/96 3268 (H) 2 FISCAL NOTES (DEC, F&G)
03/27/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/27/96 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/29/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/29/96 (H) MINUTE(RES)
04/01/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
04/01/96 (H) MINUTE(RES)
WITNESS REGISTER
JANICE ADAIR, Director
Division of Environmental Health
Department of Environmental Conservation
555 Cordova Street
Anchorage, AK 99501
Telephone: (907) 269-7644
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 342.
MARILYN CROCKETT, Assistant Director
Alaska Oil and Gas Association
121 West Fireweed Lane, Number 207
Anchorage, AK 99503
Telephone: (907) 272-1481
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 342.
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 100
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4968
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered amendments to CSHB 342.
ANNE KATHRYN RUGGLES
P. O. Box 82950
Fairbanks, AK 99708
Telephone: (907) 474-3755
POSITION STATEMENT: Governor Appointment, Alaska Board of Game
VICTOR VAN BALLENBERGHE
Pacific Northwest Research Station
U.S.D.A. Forest Service
3301 C Street, Suite 200
Anchorage, AK 99503-3954
POSITION STATEMENT: Governor Appointment, Alaska Board of Game
GREG ROCZICKA
P. O. Box 513
Bethel, AK 99559
Telephone: (907) 543-2903
POSITION STATEMENT: Governor Appointment, Alaska Board of Game
WILLIAM GOSSWEILER, Chief
Wildlife and National Resources
United States Army
P. O. Box 5-584
Ft. Richardson, AK 99505
Telephone: (907) 384-3017
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Confirmation of Victor Van
Ballenberghe
DON SHERWOOD
Alaska Boating Association; and Power Boat
Representative, Big Susitna Rec Rivers
Management Plan
1640 Brink Drive
Anchorage, AK 99504
Telephone: (907) 333-6268
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
NOEL WOODS
P. O. Box 287
Palmer, AK 99645
Telephone: (907) 745-3067
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
TONY RUSS
Foundation for North American Wild Sheep
574 Sarahs Way
Wasilla, AK 99654
Telephone: (907) 376-6474
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
TOM SCARBOROUGH
931 Vide Way
Fairbanks, AK 99712
Telephone: (907) 452-5196
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
GENE TEDERS, Representative
Interior Air Boaters Association
P. O. Box 60385
Fairbanks, AK 99706
Telephone: (907) 479-0811
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
MATT SINGER
Alaska Wildlife Alliance
26126 Wildflower Circle, Apartment A
Eagle River, AK 99577
Telephone: (907) 694-6466
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
STEPHEN WELLS
P. O. Box 202219
Anchorage, AK 99520
Telephone: (907) 277-0897
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
LEO KEELER, Representative
Friends of McNeil River
P. O. Box 190647
Anchorage, AK 99519
Telephone: (907) 248-9916
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
NICOLE DI PADUA
4520 Edinburgh
Anchorage, AK 99515
Telephone: (907) 243-4170
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
ERIC WILLIAMSON, Registered Guide/Outfitter; and
Member, Anchorage Fish & Game Advisory Committee
12720 Lupine Road
Anchorage, AK 99516
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
CATHERINE DENNERLEIN
National Audubon Society
308 G Street, Apartment 217
Anchorage, AK 99501
Telephone: (907) 276-7034
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Confirmation of Victor Van
Ballenberghe
SARA HANNAN, Executive Director
Alaska Environmental Lobby
419 6th Street
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 463-3366
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Confirmation of Anne Ruggles, Vic
Van Ballenberghe and Greg Roczicka
DICK BISHOP, Executive Director
Alaska Outdoor Council
P. O. Box 23902
Fairbanks, AK 99707
Telephone: (907) 455-4262
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
JOEL BENNETT
15255 Point Louisa Road
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 789-1718
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
SKIP WALLEN
2490 Douglas Highway
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-6517
POSITION STATEMENT: Submitted written statement in support of
confirmation of Anne Ruggles/Vic Van
Ballenberghe
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-59, SIDE A
Number 000
CO-CHAIRMAN JOE GREEN called the House Resources Committee meeting
to order at 8:05 a.m. Members present at the call to order were
Representatives Williams, Ogan, Austerman and Kott. Representatives
Davies, Long and Nicholia arrived late and Representative Barnes
was absent.
HB 342 - WATER QUALITY STANDARDS
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN brought forward HB 342 to correct a problem that
occurred at the meeting of April 17, 1996.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN read, "At the last meeting, we considered and
reported out of committee, HB 342, an Act relating to water
quality. Under debate on that bill, we considered Amendment 6
which added the words, `when site specific information is
reasonably known or available' to page 2, line 14. We voted on it,
the vote was announced, and I stated that Amendment 6 had passed.
Unfortunately, upon further review, I have learned that the vote
was not sufficient to carry that amendment."
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN's approach was to rescind action reporting the
bill out of committee and to adopt a new committee substitute,
Version (K) dated 4/18/96, which incorporated all of the other
amendments the committee adopted. He said Amendment 1 which adds
the words, "when site specific information is reasonably known or
available" will be added at the end of paragraph beginning on page
2, line 16.
Number 200
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES moved the committee rescind its action
of April 17, 1996.
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN objected for purposes of discussion.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN removed his objection.
Hearing no further objection, it was so ordered.
Number 270
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked for a motion to adopt the new committee
substitute for HB 342, Version K.
Number 279
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES so moved.
Number 309
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN brought forward Amendment 1:
Page 2, line 16, at the end of paragraph (4) add:
"when site specific information is reasonably known or
available"
Number 338
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES moved Amendment 1.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN objected for the purpose of discussion.
Number 370
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES reminded the chairman that if the amendment
was adopted, it should be adopted at the end of line 18, page 2.
He further stated the amendment was critical to the fiscal note
issue and recalled the department had testified that if the
amendment was adopted, it would significantly reduce their workload
and allow a zero fiscal note.
Number 451
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN wondered, in the absence of Representative
Rokeberg, if the sponsor was aware of the action. He recalled the
sponsor had testified that this amendment would gut the bill.
Number 500
JANICE ADAIR, Director, Division of Environmental Health,
Department of Environmental Conservation, participated via
teleconference from Anchorage. Advising of conversation with
Representative Rokeberg, she asked to clarify the confusion about
the effect of the amendment. She said, "The purpose of it is to
ensure that the Department of Environmental Conservation does not
have to go out and create information about the natural condition
of the waterbody. What it is intended to do, is say, `when it is
reasonably available or known,' we will use it. Otherwise, we do
not have to consider it. It is intended to be a cost saving
amendment ... something that we read into it in the first place,
was pointed out by the Department of Fish and Game that they did
not read it that way. Because of its different interpretations, we
thought it prudent to make it clear."
Number 561
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN addressed Representative Rokeberg's concern about
a permit request being held up while securing the information.
Number 612
MS. ADAIR said the department feels the amendment takes care of
that concern. They, too, would not want to hold up the permit
while trying to gather up information. That can be costly and time
consuming. The amendment states, "only when it is reasonably known
or available" will it require the discharge water to meet that
natural condition.
Number 678
MARILYN CROCKETT, Assistant Director, Alaska Oil & Gas Association,
agreed and said, "The heart of the matter in paragraph (4) is the
term `natural condition.' If one had information that indicated
that the natural condition of the water was extremely filthy, then
you would be able to get an exception from the water quality
regulations for the standard for that extended sediment condition.
If you didn't have that information, if the applicant didn't have
it, or the DEC didn't have it, then you would be held then to what
the water quality standards say. This is pretty straight forward,
I believe."
Number 759
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN and the CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN discussed with Ms.
Adair various conditions and situations concerning waterbody
permits.
Number 820
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN noted the arrival of the bill sponsor,
Representative Rokeberg, and proceeded to inform him of committee
action in progress.
Number 930
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG, Sponsor, informed the chairman he
was fully aware of the situation and said, "Given the fact that, if
these will yield the zero fiscal notes, I am amenable to it."
Number 964
MS. ADAIR confirmed that the amendment would zero out both the
Department of Environmental Conservation and the Department of Fish
and Game fiscal notes.
Number 992
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked for a motion to adopt Amendment 1.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stated that it was already on the table.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there was objection to Amendment 1.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated there was an objection to the amendment.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN removed his objection.
Hearing no further objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.
Number 1010
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN referred to the additional amendments submitted
by the Department of Environmental Conservation. He understood the
amendments had been reviewed and found satisfactory by the Alaska
Oil & Gas Association.
Number 1067
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he also had amendments which he
proposed to introduce and expressed his preference that the
committee act on his amendments.
Number 1132
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN reiterated that the additional amendments
prepared by the Department of Environmental Conservation and were
agreeable to the Alaska Oil & Gas Association.
MS. CROCKETT confirmed that.
Number 1180
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to his proposed amendment "by DEC
& AOGA" and said this amendment is the same as Amendment 3
submitted by the DEC, except that it has conforming language. He
noted that his amendment goes on to delete the provisions on page
3 about the public hearing process and 30-day notification
situation.
Number 1232
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified that he had referred to the DEC
amendments but they had not been offered as amendments. He said
the first part of the amendment was essentially what had been
agreed to between AOGA and the DEC. The last part of the amendment
was Representative Rokeberg was now proposing and it had not been
reviewed. He noted this would be Amendment 2, and asked
Representative Rokeberg to explain remainder of the amendment.
Number 1288
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG explained that on page 3, lines 1 and 2,
all material was deleted. He said the department testified at the
last hearing that the public hearing and the 30-day notice were not
in conformance with the Administrative Procedures Act, so it was
just being struck.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN recounted that the proper intent of the amendment
is as follows:
Page 3, lines 1 and 2:
Delete all material and renumber accordingly
Page 3, line 3:
Delete the reference to insert "(1)"
Number 1437
MS. ADAIR thought this was the same amendment that she had
discussed with Marilyn Crockett and the amendment on page 1, line
7 would simply be a conforming amendment that had been overlooked.
MS. CROCKETT assented.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked the chairman to make sure that Ms.
Adair and Ms. Crockett understood the deletion at the top of page
3.
MS. CROCKETT understood that on page 3, lines 1 and 2, which are
coincidentally, subsections (1) and (2), are eliminated. Line 3
becomes the new subsection (1) beginning with, "make available to
the public" and the rest of the section is renumbered.
Number 1481
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified that at the top of the page of
Amendment 2, on page 2, line 2, after the word "regulations."
Delete: "Promptly, but no later than 12 months, after the
effective date of"
Number 1494
MS. CROCKETT had understood that was a separate amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES commented that it was all part of the same
amendment and it could be split if she so desired.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN synthesized the amendment for the committee.
Number 1555
MS. ADAIR referred to work draft, page 3, lines 23 and 24, and said
that same conforming amendment needed to apply here.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG advised that he had another amendment for
that.
Number 1575
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there was objection to the modified
Amendment 2.
REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN advised that the amendment had not
been offered.
Number 1588
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN moved Amendment 2, as revised. He then
referred to the top section of Amendment 2, page 2, line 2, and
said he recalled earlier testimony from DEC that they had problems
with the language, "Promptly, but no later than 12 months" because
federal mandates sometimes take longer than 12 months.
Number 1670
MS. ADAIR substantiated that Amendment 2 works better for the
department.
Number 1691
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there was further discussion on
Amendment 2, as modified. Hearing no objection, Amendment 2 was
adopted.
Number 1717
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG offered Amendment 3 stating that it is a
conforming amendment, with the addition of one word:
Page 2, line 9, after "criteria"
Insert: "or regulations"
Page 2, line 7, after (b):
Delete: "(4)"
Insert: "(3)"
Page 3, line 23, after (b):
Delete: "(4)"
Insert: "(3)"
Page 3, line 24, after (b):
Delete: "(4)"
Insert: "(3)"
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked to hear from the department.
Number 1747
MS. ADAIR felt the amendment would not pose any problem.
Number 1770
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to the language on page 2, lines
1 and 2, "federal water quality criteria or regulations." and said
it makes it consistent and allows the department to look at their
own regulations.
Number 1784
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES commented that the first conforming amendment
on page 2, line 7, in Amendment 2, was already done, so it could be
struck from Amendment 3.
Number 1806
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN moved to adopt Amendment 3.
Number 1814
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN questioned whether the only thing in
Amendment 3, was on page 2, line 9.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES pointed out the conforming amendments listed
on page 3.
Number 1865
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there was objection to Amendment 3, as
revised. Hearing no objection, Amendment 3 was adopted.
Number 1890
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked to return to the old, original
Amendment 2 which had been submitted by the department as follows:
Page 2, line 6, conforming amendment
Delete: "after the public hearing required"
Insert: "following the process"
Number 1970
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES moved the Amendment 4.
Number 2007
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG had no objection.
Number 2012
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there was objection to Amendment 4.
Hearing no objection, Amendment 4 was adopted.
Number 2037
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES moved to zero out all fiscal notes. Hearing
no objection, it was so ordered.
Number 2053
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN made a motion that CSHB 342(RES), as amended,
move from the House Resources Committee with individual
recommendations and zero fiscal notes. Hearing no objection, CSHB
342(RES) passed from the House Resources Committee.
Confirmation, Anne Kathryn Ruggles, Board of Game
Number 2097
ANNE KATHRYN RUGGLES, Governor Appointment, Board of Game, apprised
the committee that she now has three years experience on the board
and has gained a tremendous amount of knowledge by working with the
Department of Fish and Game, the public and the other board
members. She said, "I also represent a point of view that has
perhaps not always been represented on the board, a point of view
expressed by many hunters as well as many nonhunters. My primary
interest is that I am interested in the wildlife in this state and
I am interested in serving the state in this capacity."
Number 2159
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT asked Ms. Ruggles to comment on her
experience and expertise in the area of hunting.
MS. RUGGLES commented that she and her family are lifelong hunters
and have hunted big game animals, moose and caribou.
Number 2251
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Ms. Ruggles to summarize her views of
when it is appropriate to use intensive game management.
MS. RUGGLES stated the need for scientific information indicating
that this is an area that is appropriate from the standpoint of
ungulate populations, and their potential to increase. The impact
of various predator populations on that ungulate population and the
capacity of habitat to support whatever the population objectives
are and public support for carrying out those activities in that
area.
MS. RUGGLES related that this method is not always appropriate in
the state at all times, for areas that physically cannot support
high levels of ungulate populations for a variety of reasons but
there are other places that can.
Number 2315
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Ms. Ruggles if she supported the use of
intensive game management during her participation on the board.
Number 2323
MS. RUGGLES confirmed that she had in a number of places, most
recently in 19D. She advised that the Board of Game had recently
put another regulation in place relating to intensive game
management in 20A. The board has now been able to approve the cow
moose hunt because of sufficient moose there.
Number 2350
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Ms. Ruggles if she cared to respond to the
comments made in the House State Affairs Committee about her
confirmation.
MS. RUGGLES felt there are people who will oppose all of the
applicants to the Board of Game, and probably oppose anybody who
was ever appointed to the Board of Game. There will be plenty of
people who support all the members. She thought it should be the
goal of the Administration and the legislature to put together a
Board of Game reflective of all the people, all the values that
exist in the state of Alaska and not try to craft a very narrow
viewed Board of Game. She said we are representing a wide variety
of values on the Board of Game and the people have no reason to
work outside of the board process to try to influence wildlife
policy.
MS. RUGGLES felt there was a very broad representation of values on
the Board of Game. She didn't see a reason for people to work
outside of the board process.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if Ms. Ruggles' attitude would be swayed if
it became a matter of public interest that the comments made would
represent the majority of the people or would she maintain the
attitudes that caused the comments to have been made.
Number 2470
MS. RUGGLES responded to the chairman's question relating to the
opposition expressed at the House State Affairs Committee saying
the difficult part of it was that it was very subjective...
....(CHANGE TAPE)
TAPE 96-59, SIDE B
Number 001
MS. RUGGLES continued .... how do you determine what is the
attitude of the majority of the people of the state?
Number 023
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Ms. Ruggles for her opinion of the
federal management of fish and wildlife in the state of Alaska.
Number 032
MS. RUGGLES said she didn't think it works for a variety of reasons
and added the most promising thing she had seen on the horizon to
try to resolve the issue, had been the Lieutenant Governor's
attempts to try to come up with solutions.
MS. RUGGLES could not imagine anyone who thinks having dual
management, double sets of regulations, overlapping sets of
advisory boards and regulatory boards is either going to help the
people in the state of Alaska or wildlife populations in the state
of Alaska.
Number 064
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Ms. Ruggles if she was aware that there
were federal regulations being considered that would possibly
eliminate the state management of fish and wildlife.
Number 083
MS. RUGGLES replied that she had read the same report. She stated
there are lawsuits that have forced this and we will continue to
see it until the state and the federal government can craft a
solution.
Number 101
CO-CHAIRMAN BILL WILLIAMS verified that Ms. Ruggles was on the
board at the time the legislature passed intensive game management
legislation and asked her opinion of the legislation.
MS. RUGGLES answered that the intensive game management legislation
had given the board direction in how it should manage in some
areas. She felt the regulatory agencies needed a little more time
to implement the law.
Number 143
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS referred to a statement in Ms. Ruggles'
resume, "My goal is to devise ways in which humans can exist in the
natural world with minimal impact on the natural systems." He
asked her to elaborate.
Number 162
MS. RUGGLES stated, "My interest is that we still need to have a
Board of Game one hundred years from now, that we have not so
impacted the systems that we have lost wildlife populations due to
habitat conversions."
Number 202
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES interrupted to state that it is 9:02 a.m. He
requested that the committee stand at-ease to observe the three
minute - 180 second moment of silence for the lives lost and the
survivors of the bombing of the courthouse at Oklahoma City.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said the committee would stand at-ease.
Number 324
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS resumed his questioning of Ms. Ruggles and
asked her to explain some of her policies as outlined in her
resume.
MS. RUGGLES said, "I think it is the primary role of the Board of
Game to ensure conservation of wildlife resources, because if we
don't do that there won't be the wildlife resources available for
people to hunt, to watch, to trap, etc. Particularly, if we are
interested in intensively managing wildlife to benefit consumptive
users, as the intensive management law requires, we have got to
make sure that those wildlife populations are there which means our
primary concern must be conservation."
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said he interpreted that to mean that her
primary purpose was to protect the game. He asked how the people
factor played into that.
MS. RUGGLES responded that in order for people to be able to
utilize wildlife, the wildlife has to be there to begin with. She
added, "We cannot use wildlife in such a way that we deplete
populations and end up with nothing left for people to use. The
two go hand-in-hand. I don't think you can have one without the
other."
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if Ms. Ruggles wanted to save the wolf,
also.
MS. RUGGLES was unsure what the Co-Chairman Williams meant by the
term "save." She said, "The wolf is one of many factors within
the wild systems in which we exist, moose exist, caribou exist, the
wolf is just one of these factors. It is certainly something that
is part of our decision making."
Number 446
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if it came to a point that game were
limited, should man have a priority over the wolf?
MS. RUGGLES responded if that was one of the areas where the public
and the Board of Game had decided that intensive management was to
be implemented, then yes. But even within intensive management, it
is not the goal in any intensive management plan that the Board of
Game has implemented to date, to eliminate wolf populations or bear
populations or any other population.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN wanted to know Ms. Ruggles' position on where the
wolf stands in the priority in the food chain with man.
Number 498
MS. RUGGLES replied, "If it is determined in an area where the
board has said, `Yes, this is a place where we are going to carry
out intensive management,' and, if the biological data that we have
from the department indicates that wolves are a limiting factor at
that time under those circumstances, then wolf management is
certainly called for."
Number 523
MS. RUGGLES felt it necessary that the committee understand, "the
limiting of wolf populations is not always going to get us where we
want to go. It is not a panacea." During her years on the board,
she had seen a couple of points of view that have been taken. One
is that a wolf shouldn't be touched any where, under any
circumstances, anyhow. She didn't think that point of view was
very productive. Another point of view expressed has been that
always, no matter what the circumstances, wolves are a problem.
She pointed out that is also not the case from a scientific point
of view. She said, "There are instances where the problem may be
bears and not wolves, where the problem may be a whole string of
bad winters and/or bad summers, or may be limiting habitat, which
is why I say it depends on the specific circumstances. If we are
given a report - information from the department that indicates
that in an area where the Board of Game is interested in carrying
out intensive management, wolves are limiting to the particular
ungulate population in question and that limiting one population
below what normal hunting and trapping would do, would give a boost
to that ungulate population, then that's a legitimate thing to do."
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if she placed a higher on priority on
consumptive use of wildlife viewing?
Number 605
MS. RUGGLES insisted that her priority depends on how the state is
managing a particular area. In areas where our priority is to
manage for consumptive use, then that is where my priority lies.
If it happens to be in an area where the priority is to manage for
viewing, and there aren't very many places where we do that, then
that is the appropriate priority. It depends entirely upon the
priority that the board has set for any given area.
Number 622
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN referred to the Lt. Governor's proposal and asked
Ms. Ruggles if she felt that preference for rural use ... would you
suggest that urban hunters be reduced rather than wolf predation or
bear predation or whatever?
Number 666
MS. RUGGLES repeated that if it is an area that the Alaska Board of
Game has determined is an area suitable for intensive management,
and if the information that we have from the department indicates
that reduction of whatever predator population has been picked will
help us achieve the goals that have been established, then yes.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN thanked Ms. Ruggles for her testimony.
Confirmation hearing Victor Van Ballenberghe, Board of Game
VICTOR VAN BALLENBERGHE, Governor Appointment, Board of Game,
stated that he had three basic reasons for having an interest in
wanting to serve on the Alaska Board of Game. He said, "First, I
feel I am well qualified, professionally and personally. I have
been in the state since 1974. Over that 22 year period, I have had
an active interest and I've been a participant in wildlife issues
here in the state."
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE continued, "I have worked as a research
biologist for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game and for the
U.S. Forest Service. I have done research on moose and wolves,
two species of interest to the board and to the public. I have
published numerous technical and popular articles on wildlife
issues over the years. I feel professionally well qualified to sit
on the board.
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE further stated, "Above that, I have had a
lifelong interest in hunting, I grew up on a farm. I do not think
I have missed a single hunting season in the last 40 years hunting
something, someplace; it hasn't all been in Alaska, much of it has
been outside of Alaska. I think I have a good feeling for what the
hunting public in Alaska desires in the way of wildlife management.
I talked to many people that are hunters, I have friends that are
hunters, I participate in the activity myself and I feel I have a
good understanding of how hunters view wildlife management in the
state."
Number 850
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE continued, "Secondly, I served a previous term
on the Board of Game. In 1985, Governor Sheffield appointed me to
the board. I served one term from 1985-1988. I gained a great
deal of knowledge and experience as a result of that term. I feel
I learned a lot. Quite frankly, if I had to do some things over
again, I'd do it. I feel that some of the actions that we took at
that time alienated some segments of the public and some of them
remember what happened back then and some of them are probably
going to show up here today in fact, and tell you about it. I was
a little bit younger then and I think I have learned over the years
that things are not quite as simple as they were then and I'd like
to have another opportunity to serve on the board and address some
of those same issues. And I might say that some of the issues that
we addressed at that time, are still around today, and those relate
to wolf management, bear baiting and virtually all the major
important issues. We tried to deal with them then, and this board
will try to deal with them now."
Number 899
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE proceeded, "Thirdly, as you all know the issue
of wildlife management in Alaska is contentious these days. There
seems to be dissatisfaction among major segments of the public
related to wildlife management. This has created a rift among
people interested in wildlife issues. As a biologist and as a
person interested in the issues and as someone who I think can be
fair and open minded and listen to all sides of the issues, I think
I can contribute to the board process. I think we have evidence
now from the March board meeting in Fairbanks that the board
functions well in its present make up. I think we did a lot of
things for hunters in terms of providing opportunity and providing
things that hunters are interested in at that March board meeting.
That is evidence that this board as it is presently constituted,
can function well."
Number 960
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE referred to letter prepared by Wayne Regelin,
Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, Department of Fish and
Game, summarizing board activity at the March meeting and
emphasizing that the vast majority of it was beneficial to hunters.
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE said, "My own view is a little more optimistic
than some regarding wildlife management in the state. I look
around the state as a hunter, as a person interested in wildlife
issues and I see lots of bright spots. I see the Nelchina caribou
herd where the board acted to triple the harvest in one year and
provide hunting opportunity to many residents of the state. I see
other caribou herds at high levels, I see some moose populations
that are in trouble, but many others that are not."
Number 999
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE concluded it is for these reasons that he
would like very much like to serve another term on the board.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if committee members had questions of Dr.
Van Ballenberghe.
Number 1006
REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA pointed out that Dr. Van Ballenberghe
was a former employee of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.
She asked him to describe his relationship with the department at
that time.
Number 1021
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE replied that he had worked for the Department
of Fish and Game from 1974 - 1980. He said, "My jobs were first of
all, as a research biologist in the Glennallen area doing work on
moose and wolves, then as the statewide fur bearer biologist in
Fairbanks. I then left that position and went to work in my present
job as a researcher for the forest service." He performed the
duties well, his evaluations were good and he considers it to have
been a positive learning experience.
Number 1056
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA inquired if there were hard feelings when
Dr. Van Ballenberghe left the employ of the ADF&G.
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE replied, "I left the Department of Fish and
Game to take a job that I considered more promising than the
research potential that I had. As with any employee, I guess there
were a few rough spots from time to time. But I certainly bear no
ill will toward the department. I have many friends and colleagues
in the department who I respect as professional wild lifers."
Number 1084
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA advised Dr. Ballenberghe that she had
received a letter describing him as doing everything he could to
obstruct the department's proposals in his previous term.
Number 1096
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE felt that description was a little extreme and
added, "I think that the record is clear. One could go back and
resurrect my voting record as a member of the board from 1985-1988,
and I believe the record would probably show that on the vast
majority of proposals that came from the Department of Fish and
Game, I voted in favor of them. There were a few that I opposed,
that the board opposed, and that did not move forward, but I think
it's extreme to say that I did everything to oppose those
proposals. I just simply don't believe that is accurate."
Number 1132
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN confirmed that Dr. Van Ballenberghe has been a
federal biologist since 1980. He asked the witness if he saw a
conflict between being a federal biologist and being on a state
board of game.
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE replied, "No Sir, I don't."
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said, "Do you realize that you take an oath to
defend the Constitution of the state of Alaska, when you serve on
that?"
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE stated, "I already have signed that."
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said, "Do you feel it is a violation of the
Tenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and a violation of the
statehood compact to have the federal government managing fish and
wildlife in the state?"
Number 1177
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE responded, "That would be a very complex,
legal question I guess, and to be honest with you, not being an
attorney, I really don't feel qualified to answer that question."
Number 1192
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN pointed out that the people who drafted the
Constitution were not attorneys, they were simple men with a basic
concept, and he thought they drafted it in a way that the average
guy can understand it. He asked Dr. Van Ballenberghe if he was
familiar with the Tenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution?"
Number 1208
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE stated it had been a while since he read it.
Number 1213
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN suggested that Dr. Van Ballenberghe read it and
added, "It says the powers that are not delegated to federal
government are retained by the states and the people. It is clear
to me that in light of the Statehood Compact which guarantees that
the state will manage fish and wildlife. The compact is like a
contract. The federal government is exceeding the Tenth Amendment
of the U.S. Constitution violating our Statehood Compact. And you
don't see a conflict with you being a federal biologist?"
Number 1244
DR. BALLENBERGHE replied, "No, I don't. As a federal employee,
sitting on the Board of Game, my opportunities to push any kind of
a federal take over of wildlife would be extremely limited. I
mean, even if I wished to do that, which I certainly do not, my
strong personal view, as not only a federal employee but also a
citizen of the state, is that the proper management authority of
resident wildlife in the state, is the state of Alaska. That's
clear. So, I think we're probably coming at this from a little bit
different angles because as an individual, I feel qualified and
competent and able to sit on the board. And I might add that both
the state and my employer have tried to take several significant
steps to minimize any conflict of interest situation, here. For
example, when I'm at board meetings, I'm on leave; I'm not acting
as a federal employee there in any capacity and there are other
steps."
Number 1329
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said, "The Lieutenant Governor of this state has
been circulating various drafts of a compromise because of the long
standing conflict between who might ultimately be the best manager
of our game. Especially, as it applies to the federal portion of
our state, federal ownership. Did I misunderstand your answer to
Representative Ogan that you are in favor of state management or
are you strictly talking about state land as opposed to federal
land?"
Number 1372
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE answered, "No, sir, I am talking about
management of all resident wildlife within the state of Alaska, no
matter where it occurs."
Number 1380
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked the witness to expand on his view of
the appropriateness of the use of intensive game management.
Number 1396
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE replied, "I believe, with regard to any of
these larger issues that come before the Board of Game, whether it
be subsistence management or intensive management or whatever, that
the Board of Game's function is to do the best it can to implement
regulations which carry out the statutes and the court decisions
that are important in these large issues. And to the degree that
the legislature has passed intensive management legislation, I
certainly believe that the board needs to carry out the full intent
and spirit of that legislation. Certainly, there are areas around
the state in which the board has already acted in terms of
designating them as intensive management areas, and one of those is
the Nelchina Basin Game Management Unit 13, where I previously
worked and I've had a long term interest and in my view as a game
board member, is that we need to do what it takes to carry out that
legislation and we will proceed to do that, I am sure."
Number 1487
REPRESENTATIVE DON LONG referred to an earlier statement by Dr. Van
Ballenberghe about possibly alienating some organizations and that
he may have to correct those, and asked if that meant that Dr. Van
Ballenberghe was swinging over to one side or the other?
Number 1506
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE replied, "We all, I think, change our views
over time; at least I certainly have. And as I indicated, we took
some actions and I took some actions as a board member ten years
ago that if I had to do it over again, I would have done a little
differently. Those actions, in some cases, alienated some people
and I just don't think that it was in some cases, the proper way to
go about that. Having learned from that experience and having had
10 additional years to think about it and to see how times have
changed, yes, my views have changed."
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if Dr. Van Ballenberghe had stated the
state and federal government had taken significant measures to
avoid conflicts of interest?
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE said that was correct.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked what those measures were.
Number 1556
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE responded, "When I am at a board meeting, I am
on leave. I am not there as a federal employee and I am not there
in any other capacity than as a citizen of the state."
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE further responded, "Secondly, as I did before
on the board, in order to avoid the appearance of a conflict of
interest, which by the way, the issue never arose during my
previous term. I had the exact same position then as I have now.
I served three years on the board and really, the issue of conflict
of interest as a federal employee, did not come up during that
time. I realize now things are a bit different."
Number 1611
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE continued, "As I did then, on specific
regulation proposals that pertain, for example, to the Tongass
Forest, I have agreed to abstain from deliberations and votes on
those proposals in order to avoid a conflict of interest. And you
know, we have tried to be sensitive to the fact that I am a federal
employee. I might point out that my role as a federal employee, is
entirely in research. It has nothing to do with policy or
management in any regard, in that the structure of the forest
service clearly separates research from policy and management. My
boss is not the regional forester. I work for a different
organization entirely of the forest service which is headquartered
in Portland, Oregon."
Number 1702
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE clarified to Representative Ogan that he had
offered to abstain on specific proposals that pertain, for example,
to the Tongass National Forest where it might be perceived that he,
as a forest service employee, might have a conflict of interest in
dealing with those.
Number 1721
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated, "Based on that, I would ascertain that
would basically render you ineffective to vote in the state's
interest if there is a conflict between the state and federal
management because of your conflict. You would have to abstain
from voting on that and it would weaken the state's position."
Number 1742
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE countered that, "In my previous term, I seem
to recall abstaining on that same basis maybe three or four times
during the three year appointment. I really think that your fears
of having me on the game board, somehow advancing a federal take
over agenda, are really unwarranted. My personal philosophy is not
to do that and as I indicated in the House State Affairs Committee
hearing, even if I wished to do it, I don't even know what the
federal agenda is, to be honest with you. As far as I know, with
regard to subsistence management of wildlife resources, the federal
government would like to get out of it. Their budgetary situation
is limited and I believe their official and public policy on it is
to turn it back to the state, if and when the legalities are
resolved. The Board of Game isn't going to resolve those
legalities, one way or the other. I guess it's up to the
legislature and the Congress and the courts to try to resolve that.
So as a game board member, to be honest with you, I feel powerless
-- even if I had some hidden agenda to advance the federal
philosophy, whatever that is, I feel powerless as one member of a
seven member board to be able to do that."
Number 1929
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES directed his question to an earlier comment
by Dr. Van Ballenberghe and said, "What I thought I heard you say,
as an employee of the forest service, you were concerned about
apparent conflicts with respect to forestry issues, but that on
game management issues that you did not feel that you would have to
abstain from voting?"
Number 1955
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE replied that all proposals before the board
relate to wildlife management, to hunting or trapping regulations.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said he was talking about larger issues that
don't have a specificity with respect to the Tongass Forest.
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE anticipated no real or apparent conflicts in
those issues.
Number 1983
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN stated, "We are apparently still on an unsettled
course as to who should have primacy of game and fish management.
We have skirted around the Tenth Amendment, we've talked about the
navigable waterways and the ownership of the land itself. I was
very impressed with your earlier response to my question, you feel
that the state should actually have jurisdiction over all the lands
within the state border. Would you, go so far as to go on record
saying that you would favor a resolution of the federal change of
ANILCA rather than a constitutional change within the state, as the
Lt. Governor is proposing?"
Number 2048
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE replied, "I think you give the game board
members a whole lot more power maybe, than they actually have."
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified that he was not asking whether he could
change things, but rather Dr. Van Ballenberghe's personal view.
Number 2067
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE said, "I do not know, sir. I guess, I would
have to consider that carefully. Better minds than I, for a long
time, have tried to deal with solving the subsistence dilemma. And
what has happened, from my perspective, as a result of the court
decisions and the failed attempts to solve it in the legislative
bodies is that we are at where we are at, today. And to be honest
with you, I don't consider myself to be a subsistence policy
expert. I consider myself to be some sort of a lowly wildlife
biologist that is interested in being on the board and contributing
that kind of expertise. I guess I would have to consider the
ramifications of your question pretty carefully."
Number 2135
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN stated, "I think I read that then as not being a
redneck wild advocate, like I might be, for the state having
complete jurisdiction. My concern sir, is the fact that even
though you're a lowly biological scientist, your discussion among
the members of the board would be of value. If there is a thread
there, that maybe we should change the state's Constitution to
allow a subsistence preference as opposed to maybe trying to get
something changed on the federal level. You're moot on that; that
is certainly your prerogative. I assume that's what you are
saying."
Number 2188
DR. VAN BALLENBERGHE said, "My response, sir ... my best response
that I could give you is this, as a game board member, if
confirmed, I am prepared to obey, follow and carry out to the best
of my abilities the directions of the courts and the legislature
and the Congress regarding subsistence - whatever it is. I might
add, I have the same position on another issue which is the
initiative on aerial hunting. I have played no role in that. I
prefer to be neutral on that and let it go the way it will go, and
then as a board member, to act accordingly. I just feel very
uncomfortable in these very large issues, in coming forth with
statements that one side or the other will be very unhappy with."
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked for a motion to move this nominee out of
committee.
Number 2270
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES so moved.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there was objection to moving Dr. Van
Ballenberghe's nomination out of committee. Hearing no objection,
it was moved.
Confirmation hearing Greg Roczicka, Board of Game
Number 2371
GREG ROCZICKA, Governor Appointment, Board of Game introduced
himself stating, "I have a pretty hefty background in dealing with
the front lines and the conflict and controversy when it comes to
resource management issues."
MR. ROCZICKA referred to earlier dialogue on federal and state
issues and discussed the cooperation among the villages and the
management regardless of who is in the driver's seat. He referred
to the Goose Management Plan that was worked on in 1985 ...(CHANGE
TAPE)
TAPE 96-60, SIDE A
Number 001
MR. ROCZICKA continued... "Regardless of what the political
situation is, we still have to deal with it on the ground, on the
front lines, with the people. Until such time as either the
federal government can come up with a way to teach animals how to
read or the state can get them to recognize boundaries -- that's
what we're stuck with. That's the perspective I being in. I have
dealt with conflict resolution consistently and that's the role
that I will bring to the Board of Game, trying to come up with
actions that fairly represent all the different users and
interests."
Number 090
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Mr. Roczicka to comment on his hunting
background; specifically, what type and how long.
MR. ROCZICKA related that his has lived in western Alaska since the
late 1960s and has hunted everything there is to hunt from fowl to
small game and big game animals.
Number 168
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if Mr. Roczicka hunted as a licensed
hunter or as a subsistence hunter.
MR. ROCZICKA explained that he is licensed for both.
Number 191
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT felt that Ms. Ruggles and Dr. Van Ballenberghe
bring both expertise and experience to the board and both have
strong personalities and potentially, offer some strong influences
over various types of decisions. He asked, "Based on their
influence, do you think that you could step aside and make the best
decision based on what you perceive are the facts?"
Number 265
MR. ROCZICKA replied, "I am kind of like the only real rookie on
that board now. One thing that did impress me at the Fairbanks
meeting, which was quite an educational experience, when there were
split votes on any matter that was before them, it was very seldom
that those split votes were the same people. I look at it, as far,
as a balance on the board right now for all the different user
groups and interests across the state, it's about the best that it
can be at this moment. Essentially, it's two people from the
boondocks, you got two scientists, you got two who are sports
advocates, I guess if you will, representing that side and then the
person as the chairman is really about the most objective person
I've seen. As far as the balance of the board, I was really
impressed with it. To get to the basis of your question, I am not
a real opinionated person but when I look at things and weigh them,
I am going to come up with my own decision and I will certainly
stand by it regardless of who's on what side."
Number 380
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Mr. Roczicka for his views on federal
management of wildlife in the state of Alaska.
Number 390
MR. ROCZICKA replied, "Lord, what a mess. The best thing that we
could possibly do is get back to one management. I believe the
state is the most appropriate entity to do that. The federal
managers and biologists are essentially -- they're scared stiff,
but they're stuck with it the same way the state is stuck with it
right at the moment. Everybody's up against that wall and it's
certainly out of my hands. We have to deal with it on the ground,
on the front lines with the people and the regulations. But we're
stuck with the current legislation or the current law and that's
what we have to deal with. I'd love to see it come back to single
management; things are certainly complicated enough and this
compounds them."
Number 467
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN offered two solutions to the problem and asked
Mr. Roczicka whether he would chose to amend the Constitution or
have the state amend the ANILCA. Also, he asked if Mr. Roczicka
recognized the Tenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and if he
was aware of the Statehood Compact and what it says about
management of wildlife?
Number 530
MR. ROCZICKA was not intimately familiar with the language, but
stated he does favor the state having control. He said, "I believe
the state does have a subsistence law that already says there is a
preference for subsistence and that applies across the board to
everyone regardless of race, location, et cetera. I do feel in
some cases that it's only on paper and not in practical application
and I do favor the state having control."
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Mr. Roczicka if he would favor amending
ANILCA.
MR. ROCZICKA responded that it would have to be a compromise. He
referred to the Lieutenant Governor's proposal as being the closest
to a solution which he felt was fair across the board.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if Mr. Roczicka had said the state had a
subsistence preference or the federal government?
MR. ROCZICKA reiterated the state does have a subsistence law that
states a subsistence preference.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said he thought the problem was that the state
has a Constitution that forbids that. He thought it was the
federal government that says there would be a subsistence
preference.
MR. ROCZICKA said, "I guess my reading on it was that it was in the
interpretation of how it's applied; that the state has a
subsistence preference but it can't break it down into the
geographical -- the urban and rural is the only place the conflict
is, in my mind or from my understanding. But the state does have
a law that states subsistence as a priority use."
Number 653
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN requested that the people waiting to testify via
teleconference adhere to the time limitation and not repeat the
prior speaker's comments.
Number 720
WILLIAM GOSSWEILER, Chief, Wildlife and Natural Resources, United
States Army, stationed in Alaska, apprised the committee that the
Army has had a longstanding and has been a proud member of the
Alaskan community with almost 2,000,000 acres of land on Fort
Greely, Fort Richardson and Fort Wainwright. He said, "The
military strives to strike a genuine balance in managing its
wildlife and other natural resources. That would be a balance that
we would consider a military mission, the ability to provide public
use of all the lands, and yet maintain good conservation practices.
We have a strong group of sportsmen and women in the military. We
have, in my opinion very, very good hunting and fishing and
trapping programs on all three of our installations. Probably, the
most obvious one is the Fort Richardson permit moose hunt that we
do annually. It has become very popular in the state."
MR. GOSSWEILER continued, "The reason I am here to speak on Mr. Van
Ballenberghe's behalf is because since my time in Alaska, from 1978
as a wildlife manager, I have had occasion to coordinate and work
with Mr. Van Ballenberghe on a number of different issues. I have
always found him to be a very thoughtful and honest person who
appears to research and evaluate things before rendering opinions
and advice. He has always come across as being very respectful of
other people's opinions and, more importantly, has demonstrated
deep working knowledge of Alaska's wildlife. I feel his
appointment to the board will prove to be a sensible choice and it
would be perceived by wildlife managers such as myself, as a real
endeavor on the part of the legislature to achieve a balance in
managing all of our wildlife resources."
MR. GOSSWEILER concluded, "All of our installations are open to the
public for sport fishing and hunting and we intend that that will
always be the situation."
DON SHERWOOD, Alaska Boating Association, and also the Governor's
appointed Power Boat Representative for the Big Susitna Rec Rivers
Management Plan, said, "I am opposed to Vic and Anne coming on to
the board again. Every year, we are losing more and more access as
being denied to motorized users and nothing is being opened up.
Vic has got a conflict of interest with the federal on our state
board. We do not need the federales. Tony Knowles picked these
people up and appointed them to the board and yet every year, we
lose more and more access to motorized. The latest one is 1.6
million acres in the Tanana Flats. You take that way, just for the
purpose of transporting moose, not geese and duck hunts, with the
boats you can do everything else with the boats, but you cannot
transport moose. Now, this is not (indisc.) biased, totally biased
and not a biological ... fish and game up there said they have got
to open it up and kill cows all up in there, the harvest is not
there and so they are worried about overcrowding. This has been
going on in the Minto Flats, up in the (indisc.) Valley. No
airplanes go in and yet there's over 500,000 caribou in that area,
365 days of hunting, five (indisc.) bag limit and yet they took out
our airplanes. This is not good management. This is not good
decisions. So, we stand opposed to the confirmation of these two
people."
Number 1008
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT clarified his understanding was that Anne
Ruggles and Victor Van Ballenberghe had been appointed under the
Hickel Administration.
Number 1027
NOEL WOODS, Palmer, testified in opposition to Anne Ruggles and Vic
Van Ballenberghe for the Board of Game. He stated, "Both of them
have had time to express their views and now it is time for others
to have the same chance. In my opinion, both of these people
oppose optimum sustained yield of animals for consumptive use. I
am a consumptive user of game since 1945 and I have paid for this
privilege. I believe those (indisc.) along with thousands of
others from the Department of Game. I submit, that if you have any
regard for the state employees of this department, you will
recognize the wishes of those who pay their wages."
Number 1067
TONY RUSS, Foundation for North American Wild Sheep in Alaska,
testified that the membership was 400 to 500, and related that the
foundation opposes the confirmation of Anne Ruggles and Vic Van
Ballenberghe. He stated, "As far as Vic goes, a state biologist
and a wildlife protection officer are both not allowed to serve on
the game board and we do not think that Mr. Van Ballenberghe, who
has the same duties as a federal employee, should have that
opportunity either. We also think Alaskans are such a strong
adversarial (indisc.) relationship with the federal government, we
do not think he will be accepted on the board. It is hard to
believe that he does not feel any conflict of interest and have
that influence his decisions. He even admits that when it comes to
the Tongass National Forest, he thinks he should abstain from
those votes. If you can't vote on everything, why should you be on
the board?" He noted the foundation also opposed the appointment
of Anne Ruggles to the Board of Game.
Number 1137
TOM SCARBOROUGH testified from Fairbanks stating that he opposes
the confirmation of Anne Ruggles and Victor Van Ballenberghe. He
reported that at a game board meeting, both Anne and Vic voted to
close Unit 26 for moose, and then came up with no collective
action. The moose population has declined over 50 percent. This
is a violation of our new state statute on intensive management.
Number 1195
GENE TEDERS representing the Interior Air Boaters Association said
there were approximately 120 members who oppose the confirmation of
Anne Ruggles and Vic Van Ballenberghe. He stated, "When they
closed down the 1.6 million acres one month, and opened up the same
area to cow hunting the next month, it tells me that they are
trying to manage people and not game. I think we need somebody to
manage the game and the resources and not the people and how they
run them."
Number 1223
MATT SINGER, Alaska Wildlife Alliance, expressed support for Anne
Ruggles and Vic Van Ballenberghe to the game board. He said,
"They bring much needed moderation to the board at a time when the
public has lost faith in the board's ability to manage wildlife for
all Alaskans. Mr. Van Ballenberghe and Ms. Ruggles' previous game
board experience and professional background in biology lends a
great deal of credibility to their appointment. It would be
terribly shortsighted of the legislature to deny these
confirmations due to the opposition of a small group of sport
hunters. I urge you to remember that the wildlife in the state
should be managed for the benefit of all Alaskans. Mr. Val
Ballenberghe and Ms. Ruggles are thoughtful, prudent decision
makers who represent both nonconsumptive and consumptive uses of
wildlife. They deserve prompt confirmation."
Number 1298
STEVE WELLS testified in support of Victor Van Ballenberghe and
Anne Ruggles. He commented, "Dr. Van Ballenberghe's qualifications
speak to themselves and in addition, he has gotten valuable
experience with the wildlife public process from both his work
experience and his former appointment to the board. In addition,
I would like to add that I agree with what Mr. Gossweiler said
about Dr. Ballenberghe's most important qualification and that is,
I think he is a fair minded individual."
Number 1303
LEO KEELER representing the Friends of the McNeil River said, "I
would like to focus on an article in yesterday's metro newspaper,
an editorial supporting Vic Van Ballenberghe and I support him for
all of those reasons, plus what has been previously stated here.
Anne Ruggles I believe, has served the board well in the past. Of
course, appointed by Governor Hickel and now by Governor Knowles.
I believe there is a strong lobbying effort by paid lobbyists
working with the Senators down there and I just encourage you to
think of the average Alaskan hunter that is out here and not so
much to the lobbyists that are down there in front of you. I do
have a prepared statement I would like to fax to Juneau, with some
more detail, and I will send that down later."
Number 1344
NICOLE DI PADUA expressed support for confirmation of Anne Ruggles
and Vic Van Ballenberghe for the Board of Game and said, "It seems
to me that we need an infusion of science in some of the important
Board of Game discussions and decisions. Scientists tend to
approach decision making with factual information and not
emotions."
Number 1383
ERIC WILLIAMSON, Registered Guide/Outfitter, said he also conducts
fishing and wildlife watching expeditions and a member of the
Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee and a board director of
the Alaska Wilderness Recreation Tourism Association. He said, "I
am just speaking for myself today. I would like to endorse Anne
Ruggles, Vic Van Ballenberghe and Greg Roczicka all together and I
agree with what has been said previously. I think it is vital to
prevent erosion of credibility of the board process and the ADF&G.
On Greg Roczicka's behalf, my main area of operation is western
Alaska and I feel that he has a good perspective on that."
Number 1427
CATHERINE DENNERLEIN, National Audubon Society, said she would
testify on behalf of herself today but would submit for the record,
a detailed letter from retired regional Vice President, David Cline
on behalf of the National Audubon Society. She said, "I agree
with many things that have been in support of Dr. Van Ballenberghe
and I just would like to mention that since Alaska is viewed by so
many millions of people throughout the nation and the world as the
last great stronghold as a place for wildlife and truly, in
magnificent wild settings. It is a place for people of diverse
backgrounds and interests to continue to derive benefits from
wildlife without causing lasting damage to the resource. I think
that the public deserves a very scientifically, sophisticated and
credible wildlife conservation program. I echo the concerns that
Mr. Roczicka mentioned earlier about having a very strong state
Department of Fish and Game and it is very important that we have
good management here in Alaska. I think that Dr. Van Ballenberghe
has been a very excellent public servant and would move Alaska in
the right direction to keep us from becoming that conservation
battleground."
Number 1509
SARA HANNAN, Executive Director, Alaska Environmental Lobby, said
she would testify today as a life long Alaska and life long hunter.
She said, "I am here to talk to you about the Board of Game process
and encourage you to remember that when you are talking about
public policy makers, if each of you were judged singly on one vote
you took on one issue in isolation from your capabilities and
dedication to the committee process, the hard work you put in for
your constituents, we could probably take any one of you, any one
issue, and find a whole lot of people in Alaska who are think you
are not credible because of that vote. And that is not the way to
judge whether you're doing your job and whether you're good for
Alaska. " She noted the committee had previously heard legislation
addressing the Board of Game and Board of Fish confirmation
process, which she believed puts everyone in a back corner because
in essence, these people are being elected after they've service.
She stated, "Now I would like to speak exclusively about Anne
Ruggles who I do know personally. I don't know Mr. Roczicka. I
don't know Mr. Van Ballenberghe. But I know Anne Ruggles and she
is a committed, capable Alaskan who has good credentials to serve
on this board. She certainly has made decisions that not every
Alaskan agrees with but that doesn't mean that she is not doing her
job to represent the state of Alaska in a very complex way."
MS. HANNAN continued, "We have had members of this committee speak
this morning and say, `It should be clear in law because the Tenth
Amendment and the Statehood Compact say this.' None of us are
attorneys at this table and we have to defer to the fact that there
are a lot of attorneys in the U.S. who say it's not that clear.
You and I may read that constitution one way and say it's
absolutely clear. And you and I may not know that the subsistence
law that the state of Alaska has on books - it's not a problem that
we have a subsistence law except for the federal attorneys say it
doesn't meet their standard because it doesn't give a rural
preference or a Native preference, but our state legal advocates
say we can't do that. Those are things that attorneys have to
argue about, not the Board of Game."
MS. HANNAN further stated, "The Board of Game's job is to carry out
to the best of the deliberative process the parameters that you
give them in statute. When those statutes change, they've got to
start coming back, does the intensive game management statute
passed two years ago, what does this mean now. It is a slow and
deliberative process. Our Board of Game represents an extensive
network of advisory committees and citizens and it's a tough job.
I would urge you today to confirm those three members and
especially, Anne Ruggles, who I know personally and I think is the
most credible scientific kind of mind that we want to see on the
Board of Game."
Number 1678
DICK BISHOP, Executive Director, Alaska Outdoor Council, said, "The
council is an umbrella organization of 45 member groups with about
1,200 individual members, with a total membership of somewhere
between 11,000 and 12,000 people. Our purposes are to ensure sound
conservation of fish and wildlife and habitats; fair access on the
part of the public to uses of those resources; and fair public
access to the public lands of Alaska, be they state or federal."
Number 1726
MR. BISHOP related, "The Alaska Outdoor Council Board of Directors
voted to oppose Dr. Victor Van Ballenberghe and Anne Ruggles for
confirmation to the Board of Game. I'd like to point out the Board
of Directors of the council includes a number of learned people:
the former commissioner of the Department of Fish and Game, Carl
Rosier, is one of our board members; a retired biologist who has
worked with both Anne Ruggles and in a professional capacity with,
Dr. Van Ballenberghe, Dr. Al Franzman (sp), is on our board; we
have a doctor of agricultural economics, Peter Probasco, who has
relatives who work in the ADF&G; and a number of other long time
Alaskans including retired biologists from the forest service. So,
it's a fairly well informed group of people I would say, relatively
speaking."
MR. BISHOP continued, "Based on our members and our board's
experience in working with these two individuals over a number
years - a varying number depending on the individual experience, we
don't believe that the best interest of sound conservation and fair
allocation of Alaska's game resources will be served by their
involvement in the board process."
Number 1788
MR. BISHOP referred to map of Alaska pointing out the area the
Board of Game has direct influence on the policies which is 40
percent of Alaska and said, "As an organization, we believe that it
is very important to positively address the interests of hunters,
trappers in those areas because the other 60 percent is largely off
limits and if the federal government keeps going the way they're
going, it's going to be even less than 40 percent that the board
has. But in fact, in terms of management to address the interests
of hunters, trappers and fishers by whatever description they may
have, that's the area the Board of Game has influence on and we
think it is absolutely essential that they have a strong interest
in accommodating those interests and values."
Number 1826
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Mr. Bishop if the Alaska Outdoor Council
had deliberated on the third nominee, Greg Roczicka.
Number 1830
MR. BISHOP said the council had no objection to Mr. Roczicka's
appointment.
Number 1844
JOEL BENNETT testified from Juneau, stating "I am one of the
hunters that Dick Bishop just referred to. I have been a hunter
for 28 years, actively, ... most species of the state, licensed
every year. I'd like to urge your approval of both these well
qualified board appointments. I do not know Mr. Roczicka, but I
believe him to be at that same level. The state should be proud to
have individuals of this caliber serving on the board. I believe
they represent both responsible hunting interests and other
interests in wildlife management."
Number 1874
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Mr. Bennett if he knew any of these
individuals on a personal basis.
MR. BENNETT said he is personally acquainted with Anne Ruggles and
Dr. Van Ballenberghe.
RICHARD WALLEN prepared statement is included into the record: "My
name is Richard Wallen, I live at 2940 Douglas Highway in Juneau.
I was a game biologist with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game
for about five years in the early 1960s. For the last 30 years, I
have been self-employed as an artist and small businessman here in
Alaska. I served a three year term on the Alaska Board of Game
beginning in 1990.
"I am here to urge the confirmation of Ann Ruggles and Dr. Vic Van
Ballenberghe to the Board of Game. In supporting these people, I
do not intend to imply that I do not support the third candidate.
From everything I hear he is a valuable board member. However, I
do not know him or know much about him. I met both of the other
candidates during my time on the board and was impressed with their
interest, knowledge of wildlife matters and their competence and
dedication to work on issues that come before the board. I believe
both of them have fairly represented many diverse interests in
wildlife management matters during their previous terms on the
board, and will continue to do so in the future. Their judgement
and balance is of great value to the board and to Alaskans."
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House Resources
Committee, Chairman Green adjourned the meeting at 10:11 a.m.
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